This week, a student has been considering filing a lawsuit against a teacher who placed his Mexican flag in the trash can on Cinco de Mayo. Facts seem to be a little wishy washy on both sides due to the student's lack of proficiency in Engilsh, but none the less his flag was physically placed into a garbage can by his p.e. teacher on a very special day. The teacher claims it was for school safety because of racial tension on campus and that he had no where else to place it. Yet again, we're back to our good 'ol list of cases that Mr. Silton has given us. Should different laws apply on school grounds? Or does high school violence give enough of a cause to limit carrying a flag around campus on a holiday, and therefore allow this teacher to take away his flag?
I know TX v. Johnson had to do with United States flag burning, but if we can't burn a flag, are we allowed to throw it away? To me, it seems like the same meaning in slightly different form. Yes, burning the flag is slightly more dramatic, but throwing it out is equally degrading to the meaning. Similarly, in a country built on freedom of almost anything possible and respecting the differences between people, should we be able to degrade OTHER flags in a country built upon citizens from all over the world?
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16 comments:
I thought TX v. Johnson established that we can burn flags...
Anyway, given that we can burn flags, I'm quite sure we can also throw them away in garbage cans. However, the teacher in this situation threw away a flag that did not belong to him, so I'm going to say that he shouldn't have done that.
But, whether he should or shouldn't have done it ultimately depends on the level of potential violence that the flag might have caused (impossible to determine from "wishy washy facts").
I think that it is a bit strange that the teacher claimed that he had "no where else to place it." It just seems very unlikely, and he probably could have put it in his office or something. I don't believe that he should be able to throw away that student's flag, because like Mike said, it was his private property.
Derek has a point, it is just a little strange that the "teacher" had nowhere else to put it . Maybe the teacher is a racist? Perhaps the teacher should be charged with grand theft and assault and hate crime charges.
Or maybe there truly was some sort of racially charged violence that could have resulted in this poor non-english speaking human being's attempt to celebrate his mother country's independence day.
The world may NEVER know.
Well, I guess it really depends on the school. If it was Aragon, there should be no problem with a Mexican flag. On the other hand, if it was a school with really high racial tensions against Mexicans, well, that's a whole different problem. The fact that he threw away his private property is still bad though, something like asking him to put it away or taking the flag away until the end of the day would have been more reasonable.
I agree that because it was not the teacher's property, he had no right to throw away the student's flag. Seeing as this flag probably had a lot of value to the student, it is very disrespectful that the teacher threw it away. I think its obvious that it was not thrown away because there was no where else to put it, I'm sure the teacher could have found somewhere to put it that wasn't in a garbage can.
If there was a significant enough reason to throw the flag away, such as if it was going to incite violence then I would say the P.E. teacher acted rationally. Yet, I doubt there was. I'm also going to assume that there probably was another way the violence could have been stopped such as asking the student to place it in a locker, so I think the teacher should not have done that and it could be considered discrimination.
All rules are different when you are at school. Just look at some rules that aragon has. Teachers will take away your property if it isnt suppose to be out because of the rules. Maybe the garbage can wasnt the best place for the flag, but the teacher had all of the right in the world since the judicial system has allowed schools to have different rules then the real world.
I think that if it were the American flag the teacher threw away, no one would've cared because it'd be cliche to raise a fuss about that, but people are very concerned about being all politically correct with minorities and such, so it becomes a bigger deal when it's a Mexican flag on a Mexican holiday. And maybe the teacher was right - "no where else to put it" is totally legit if you're hanging the flag on the trash can of the pool deck because you don't want to be disrespectful and put the flag on the floor and that trash can is just so clean and pretty, all painted in red and black! Who knows, like Haeley said, the facts are fuzzy
This is a tough position because the student had the right to carry his flag around as long as it wasn't causing any serious problems. However the teacher had the right to take the flag if he thought that it was going to cause people to riot. (I doubt anyone even noticed the kid) The teacher should have at least placed the flag somewhere besides a garbage can, that seems kinda harsh and disrespectful. The only way I can agree with the teacher is if the flag was going to cause violence.
I think a lot of people are saying something close to the Tinker v. Des Moines decision. I agree that the student definitely has his rights, but what if he really was causing some disturbance? Maybe we're being too quick in criticizing the PE teacher here. And would there be as great an outrage if it was, say, a confederate flag?
I agree perhaps the way the post and the article was written, has caused myself and maybe others to become more biased against the PE teacher. However, I stand by my initial feeling that the teacher shouldn't have thrown the flag away. It seemed to me that it was clearly disrespectful. But again, like Kristina said, it might be the result of my trying to be "politically correct." Anyway, I believe that the teacher could have handled the situation better by asking the student to put the flag away, or taking the falg away and keeping it until the end of the day.
I honestly believe that people do not need to bring their heritage to school. Although that is a little hypocrytical on my part, I do where some shirts sometimes, I think that tension can boil when people do brings flags and the like to school. Was it acceptable for the teacher to throw it in the trash can, no. But then I would have to say that what is wrong with wearing an American flag or a Confederate flag on Cinco de Mayo? I think it would be wrong, but who is to say it is not. So in a hypothetical situation, we have some kids bringing their country's flag, and we have some other kids wearing/bringing another, seems like that would be asking for trouble. And to say the least why would someone be allowed to bring a flag from their country that could potentially cause harm when we do not let kids wear basic colors of blue and red sometimes. I feel that at school, no one needs to bring anything related to their heritage because it is too much of a double standard. So back to was what the teacher did wrong? Well was their a 15 year-old confederate walking down the halls because if that was the case the teacher was doing his job!
Ok if the teacher honestly thought the flag was going to promote some serious violence or an uprising he wouldn't have said that he had no place else to put it. The article shows that the teacher really had no right to place it in the garbage and his excuse doesn't really hold up. Why didn't he just take it from the student and then give it back later. The teachers actions definitely break the TX V. JOHNSON case's law.
I'm not sure if this was clarified, but yes TX v Johnson did say that flags could be burned under the freedom of speech segment. The supreme court also said that it can only be punished if it incites harmful meaning or purpose. I'm not quite sure of the degree of malice in this case, but if it was on the lesser side of the matter, i dont think that any significant punishment will be taken. But this doesn't mean that im supporting this unfortunate flag burning concept.
In Tinker v. Desmoines, the court said that student rights don't end when they enter school. It also said that symoblic speech was protected. therefore, the school can't stop the kid from displaying his flag. Even if it might have been dangerous due to tensions - I find it hard pressed to see a clear and present danger. Freedom of speech uses the strickest interpretation of the constitution, and I have doubts that the threat of the flag were so great, so there is no doubt he should have been allowed to wear it.
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